ASIATIC, VOLUME 4, NUMBER 1, JUNE 2010
Asiatic, Vol. 4, No. 1, June 2010
87
An Interview with Anwar Ridhwan:
A Malaysian National Laureate
Nurul Fateha Aziz and Mohammad A. Quayum1
International Islamic University Malaysia
Anwar Ridhwan was born on 5 August 1949 at Parit Satu Timur,
Sungai Besar,
Selangor, Malaysia. The youngest in a family of six children,
his early education
began at Sekolah Kebangsaan Sungai Besar, where he studied from
1956 to
1962. After that, he went to Sekolah Menengah Sabak Bernam (now
Sekolah
Ungku Aziz, Sabak Bernam) from 1963 to1967, and attended Sekolah
Alam
Shah, Kuala Lumpur from 1968 to 1969. In 1970, he enrolled as a
student in the
Malay Studies Department at University Malaya (UM) and received
his Bachelor
of Arts degree in 1973, Master’s in 1983 and Ph.D. in 1988, all
from the same
university.
After graduating in 1973, he worked as a temporary officer at
Dewan
Bahasa dan Pustaka (DBP) for three months, after which he was
accepted as a
Literary Research Officer there, on a permanent basis. He was on
the Editorial
Board of Dewan Bahasa and Dewan Budaya at DBP. In
1982, he took a
management and book publishing course at New York University,
Manhattan,
USA. In 1986, he attended the International Writing Program at
the University
of Iowa, USA. Later, he became Head of the Literary Development
and
Expansion Unit at DBP. From April 1997 to March 2000, he was a
Visiting
Professor at the Tokyo University of Foreign Studies. In 2001,
he was
appointed the Director of Publication, DBP until his retirement
in 2005. Since
July 2008, he has been the Dean, Faculty of Creative Writing,
Akademi Seni
Budaya dan Warisan Kebangsaan Malaysia (National Academy of
Arts, Culture
and Heritage, Malaysia).
He began his literary career at UM where he founded ISUM,
Literary
Association of University Malaya. He also wrote for the culture
column of the
campus newspaper, the Mahasiswa Negara. His short story
“Perjalanan Terakhir”
(The Last Journey) won the Hadiah Sastera Malaysia (Malaysian
Literary Prize)
in 1971, the youngest to have won such a nationally acclaimed
award. In 1976,
his first collection of short stories, Parasit (Parasite),
was published. The second
anthology was published in 1978, entitled Sesudah Perang (After
the War). He
1 Nurul Fateha Aziz is a postgraduate student in the Department of
English Language and
Literature, International Islamic University Malaysia, and
Mohammad A. Quayum is a professor
in the department.
An Interview with Anwar Ridhwan
Asiatic, Vol. 4, No. 1, June 2010
88
also won the Hadiah Karya Sastera Malaysia (Malaysian Literary
Award) on
three other occasions, respectively for his stories “Sesudah
Perang” (After the
War) in 1976, “Sasaran” (Target) in 1982 and “Sahabat”
(Friend) in 1983. In
1992, his short story “Dari Kiev ke Moskova” (From
Kiev to Moscow) won the
first prize in a short story writing competition organised by
Dewan Bahasa dan
Pustaka.
His first novel, Hari-hari Terakhir Seorang Seniman (The
Last Days of an
Artist), published in 1979, won the first prize in a Novel
Writing Competition
organised by the Sabah Foundation and GAPENA (Federation of
Malay
Writers Association). It has been translated into English by
Harry Aveling,
Japanese by Tatsuo Hoshino and French by Monique Zaini
Lajoubert. His
second novel, Arus (The Current) published in 1985, also
won the Hadiah
Sastera Malaysia. It has been translated into French and Thai.
His latest novel,
Naratif Ogonshoto (Tales of
Ogonshoto), published in 2001, has been translated
into Russian.
His plays include Orang-orang Kecil (Little People) and Yang
Menjelma dan
Menghilang (Those Who Appear and
Those Who Disappear), published in 1990.
Both have been translated into English by Solehah Ishak. Yang
Menjelma dan
Menghilang won the first prize in a
Drama Writing Competition organised by
Yayasan Seni (The Art Foundation) and the Malay daily Berita
Harian. He also
has an anthology of poetry, Tercipta dari Tanah (Created
from Clay), published in
1985.
In 2002, Anwar Ridhwan received the SEA Write Award from
Thailand. In
2009, he received the most prestigious literary prize in
Malaysia, Anugerah Sastera
Negara (the National
Laureateship). He is the tenth Sasterawan Negara (National
Laureate), after Keris Mas, Shahnon Ahmad, Usman Awang, A. Samad
Said,
Arena Wati, Muhammad Haji Salleh, Noordin Hasan, Abdullah
Hussainn and S.
Othman Kelantan.
Your reading habits were cultivated in childhood. Would you like
to elaborate on it?
It was spontaneous. The awareness was cultivated when I figured
out that for a
poor village boy reading acted not only as a companion but also as
a source of
education. Therefore I loved to read widely. I could say that I
had read each and
every book at the library when I was in primary school, which were
not that
many really; there were around fifty books per shelf, but they
were plenty. That
was how it all sparked, because reading opens up the mind and
expands our
understanding of the world.
What were your favourite books back then?
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Asiatic, Vol. 4, No. 1, June 2010 89
As a child, my favourite was of course story books like those
published by
Pejabat Karang-Mengarang (Department of Writing, established at
the Sultan
Idris Teacher Training College), such as the translated and
abridged works of
Shakespeare, Sherlock Holmes, and then there were the animal tales
and the
Thousand and One Nights.
Indirectly, this was my early exposure to Western and
classical Arabic literature.
Did the environment at home encourage your reading habit?
We didn’t have many books at home, so my brother and I liked to
borrow from
the school library. My mother liked to buy her own favourite books
of syair2 and
hikayat,3 which
she collected. I often read her collection of syair and hikayat.
Abang Lang, my third brother who studied in Maahad el-Ehya
al-Sharif in
Gunung Semanggol, Perak had a whole shelf full of reference kitabs.
Those
kitabs had beautiful covers. I
always browsed through them with regret and envy
towards him, because they were in Arabic and I couldn’t understand
them.
You have been writing for 40 years. What made you write the first
time around? What
motivates you to write? Could you explain to us about your
creative process?
I was motivated by having an idea that could be shared, and
sharing not in the
form of conversation that would leave no impact but in a creative
and
imaginative form, published in the shape of a book, all written
down. I am
talking about ideas transferred into a book, in writing, because
when I first read
the library books, I got the impression that if someone has
talent, is able to
write and the writing is published, then it would be an immense
contribution to
others and that contribution might possibly last for a long time,
depending on
its quality and its exposure to society. The life span of works as
such is longer
than the writers. So when I was small, I had dreams of becoming a
writer so
that my work would be published, read by people and would stay for
a long
time at libraries. That was my childhood vanity (laughs)!
So at that point you hadn’t thought that you would become a
writer?
Not yet. It was all just dreams. I was yet to know how to write a
literary work.
It was only through reading that the dreams developed into an
ambition. A
well-kept ambition! In secondary school, I started thinking about
writing.
2 A Malay poetic form consisting of a series of quatrains and an
ongoing story.
3 An Arabic word that literally means “stories.” It is a form of
classical Malay literature, which
recounts the adventures of heroes of Malayan kingdoms, or royal
chronicles. The stories they
contain, though based on history, are often romanticised. It has
some similarities with epic poetry.
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Through reading, I learnt on my own how fiction writers set the
narratives in
motion, introduce the characters, begin and put the plot into
action; also, I
scrutinised the narrative style, the language used and so on. That
was how I first
learnt how to write fiction, because there was no school in my
place at the time
that taught writing or offered writing courses like the way we
have now.
I “officially” began writing when I was in my first year at
University
Malaya. My lecturers introduced me to a number of terminologies
and tips for
good writing. It turned out to be easy for me because I had been
studying it on
my own since secondary school. Initially I felt a bit overwhelmed
by all the
heavy terms and jargons, but with time it all fell into place.
What is your view of globalisation? How would you describe your
worldview?
I believe the modern global society has become very complex.
Nonetheless,
every individual or society should understand this complexity and
try to find a
common ground that can be used as a basis for creating a
harmonious world. If
we look for differences, of course there would be a lot, with all
the various
cultural, political, social, religious and geographic backgrounds
of people around
us. And political demagogy would often go for the exclusivist and
divisive
option for the sake of power.
If I am asked about worldview, I would say, let’s look for
similarities that
we could share to live together happily, without any unnecessary
war and
carnage that puts us in a vicious, unremitting cycle of
devastation and
destruction. It is better for us to leave behind a safer and more
peaceful world
for the next generation than its opposite.
In your opinion, how could globalisation help or harm the growth
of literature in Malaysia?
If during the colonial era, when we were restrained in so many
ways and were
forced to believe that the West was the centre of the world and
culturally
superior to us, globalisation has started to deny that and allow
the emergence of
cultures and cultural products from other nationalities. Thus,
literary works as a
nation’s cultural product has the potential to develop globally,
through
translation and so on. And in Malaysia, there are works by
established as well as
young writers that could be transferred to the global stage.
However, literary
works, including those by Malaysian writers, must be of a really
high quality to
be accepted and recognised globally.
Globalisation could also harm the growth of literature in Malaysia
in
several ways. The first enemy would be the writers themselves, if
they fail to
produce magnum opus from time to time, while the public has access
to works
of high quality from other countries. Globalisation could flood
the local book
market with works from other countries, and crowd the sphere of
literary
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91
theory and criticism from extraneous sources, which we should have
owned and
controlled ourselves. I think, local authors and critics realise
this and are
constantly trying to produce excellent works. So as not to be
terrified by the
consequences of globalisation, our only option is to produce and
provide
readers with high quality literary works. That is no other
alternative.
How do you think a writer could help to create a better world to
live in?
This is a good question. Writers could, through their works, help
to create a
better world. However, writers should not be overly egocentric and
think that
they alone could help in the attainment of a better world. There
are others as
well who could contribute towards this goal: thoughtful and
ethical politicians,
rural and urban planners, economists, sociologists, intellectuals,
religious
scholars and so on.
I believe that since the time of Socrates and Plato a significant
body of
serious writings have had its own epistemology and subtext that
aspire for a
more humanistic society, with an improved liveable condition for
the species.
Writers generally love peace not war, harmony not conflicts, a
healthy not toxic
social environment, and humanity not bestiality in mankind; they
love love itself,
not hatred. I think writers could help to create a better world by
continuing to
produce ethically and aesthetically appealing works, and not
forgetting the
epistemological and pedagogical aspects in their writing, although
I realise that
there are writers who refuse to be bound by the concept of
epistemology in
literary works. One’s purpose of writing would determine his level
of awareness
about his society and the world. The level of a writer who writes
for money and
popularity would certainly be different from one who is aware of
the social
issues that should be woven into his work. This awareness comes
with inner
vision, regardless of whether a writer is young or has matured
with age and
experience.
Who are the writers who inspire you most? We understand that you
admire the works of Keris
Mas, Shahnon Ahmad, Hemingway and Faulkner. What distinguishes
them from other
writers?
Generally, the four of them excel in their narrative skills; their
works are wellordered
and contain rich thematic and artistic elements. They know their
language well and manipulate it very creatively. We are taken on a
journey,
observing people and their every day experiences in a way that is
vivid and
convincing. We are invited to experience their physical world and
partake of
their (the characters’) spiritual and emotional spheres. There are
also
philosophical and educational subtexts in their works which help
to enhance the
An Interview with Anwar Ridhwan
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92
intellectual experience. Thus, in their works, we not only get to
observe
characters and events, but also experience profound ideas.
You also like the works of the Indonesian writer Pramoedya Anata
Toer. Is it for the same
reasons?
Yes, for the reasons I mentioned above. Furthermore, if we compare
him to the
other four writers, Pramoedya’s life was far more difficult; he
was politically
oppressed and incarcerated. In spite of all that, however, he held
on to his
idealism and poured it all out into his writings, to the extent
that we could see
his life in his work.
I also like Pramoedya because of the affinity of his narrative
prose to
Bahasa Melayu. It is not Indonesian like that of most contemporary
young
Indonesian writers. In some of his works, the language seems very
much Malay,
clear and well-ordered, like the narrative language of Keris Mas –
and of course
clear writing comes from a clear mind.
Why do you prefer writing novels and short stories over poetry? Do
you find the composition of
poetry more complicated?
To me, a short story is like the lake and a novel like the sea. It
is easier to set sail
in a sea because it is wider and has more room. However,
relatively, both of
these genres provide a large canvas to the extent that, especially
with novels,
narratives on people, events, and ideas could be presented with
more details and
depth. Perhaps people think that writing poetry is easier than
writing short
stories or novels but for me, writing poetry does not come with
ease. Yes,
indeed, I find writing poetry more complicated because of its
limited space.
Poetic language has to be concise and adorned with metaphors and
imagery, its
substance involves intellect, a way of thinking and philosophy.
But other writers
may find writing poetry easier than short stories or novels.
What do you think about the present state of Malaysian literature,
not only in Malay but
also in Mandarin, Tamil and English? How has it developed so far,
in your opinion?
About Malaysian literature in English, I once heard an opinion
voiced by Wong
Phui Nam, a writer and a scholar in the field. He mentioned that
English
writing in Malaysia is in its deathbed. I have no idea why he said
so, perhaps
because there are no young talents after himself, K.S. Maniam,
Lloyd Fernando
and others.
About Chinese and Tamil literature, it’s a pity that I can’t read
them, except
those that have been translated into Malay or English.
Nevertheless, I am aware
that Chinese and Tamil literature in Malaysia will continue to
grow because
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every race would always keep their culture alive and produce their
own cultural
products like literary works. I believe, like most literary works,
Chinese and
Tamil writers also support the humanity concept (at least based on
their poetry
and short stories I have read in translation). I am not sure if
they have any
“underground” works that are not translated for some reason.
It is an irony that we know of Western, Eastern, African,
Latin-American
writers, but in the Malaysian context, we do not know the works
and writers of
other races – those whose homes are much nearer to ours. My hope
is,
especially for writers of the new generation, that they would get
to know more
of these writers. Non-Malay writers and people should also get to
know Malay
works and talented writers.
Who are these young writers you have in mind?
I am thinking of, among others, Zaid Akhtar, Faisal Tehrani, Nisah
Haron,
Mawar Shafie and S.M. Zakir. They write with a clear literary
awareness and
vision. They are different from a number of other writers who
crave for
popularity by writing pop fiction.
Since you mention pop fiction – what do you think of Malay romance
novels which are in
abundance in the local bookstores?
Well, we cannot enforce on the public what they should or should
not read.
Different people have different tastes. There are people who may
not like to
read serious novels, or perhaps not yet, but my view is, they are
at least reading.
Most popular novels talk only about people and events, very little
on ideas, and
if there’s any, there’s no multilayered meaning in it, everything
is explained in a
straightforward way. But at least it encourages them to read and
to want to
understand people and events other than their own. My hope is that
when these
readers grow older, their tastes will change and they will look
for something
else, in a different genre. And the same goes for the writers. If
they are in their
20s and 30s, they might be writing romance novels, but when they
grow older
they will be switching to something more serious to keep up with
their readers
who would have by then grown out of the romance genre.
What about censorship? Does it hinder the growth of literature?
We must admit that censorship still exists in our country.
Specially for
government and IPTA publishers whose financial resources come from
the
government. They are totally under the thumb of the government. I
do
understand why there is censorship, but I do not necessarily agree
with it.
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Things however have started to change. The government is becoming
more open. There are alternative media out there now. If the
government
doesn’t show flexibility, it only brings harm to itself. That is
why there are more
anti-establishment publishers now, such as the one who published
Faisal
Tehrani’s Perempuan Politikus Melayu (The Malay Woman
Politician) and
numerous other works with political themes. Apparently, there are
issues that
the government tolerates but not when it comes to Muslims’ aqidah
(faith), racial
unity and national security.
Censorship, especially that restricts freedom of expression in the
arts,
could indeed hinder the growth of literature or growth of a
society. Writers can
no doubt circumvent the censorship rules through various literary
strategies in
their narratives, or through the incorporation of symbols,
metaphors and other
figurative devices in their work. This was what I did, for
instance, in my novel
Naratif Ogonshoto. However, not all
writers are comfortable in doing so. They
want to convey a clear message, like an arrow that would hit right
on its point
of aim.
What sparked the idea for Naratif
Ogonshoto?
The idea for this novel came when I was working in Japan. I was
there for 3
years. When I was far away from my country, it came to be so
close, especially
with political conflicts involving such a scholar as Anwar
Ibrahim, economic
problems and all these tittle-tattle about cronyism, corruption
etc. However,
when I was planning for the novel I saw many of the developing
countries
going through an acute political crisis. Politics in a number of
developing
countries happens to be a toy for some people for their power and
the wealth
that comes with it.
This dilemma is not only Malaysia’s. It is also true for most of
the
developing countries in Africa and Asia. The idealism to see
politics as a
medium for developing mankind and civilisation is being
overshadowed by the
presence of too many vile political figures. Therefore, in Naratif
Ogonshoto I did
not want to merely write about Malaysia, but about problems that
are universal
in the so-called third world. That’s why I invented a new country
with an
imaginary setting – the Republic of Ogonshoto.
The name itself sounds Japanese. Was it because you were in Japan
that you chose such a
name?
There are indeed Japanese influences in the novel. My memories in
Japan have
been woven into the book. The Republic of Ogonshoto has three
active
volcanoes, whose flowing lava at night looks like fluid gold
pouring into the sea.
If I were to give the novel a Malay title, it would be Kepulauan
Emas (The Isle
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of Gold). In Japanese, ogonshoto refers to gold. That’s
what I meant. But as you
know, this narrative is allegorical. At its core, there is an
earthquake which
creates an amok and a tsunami which brings punishment for the
deserving.
What is your view of race relations in Malaysia?
I am worried because there is no real attempt to bring the races
together, such
as through a cohesive educational system or a strong language
policy. In
Indonesia and Thailand, the governments have taken various
measures to build
bridges between the races and yet we hear of racial conflicts from
time to time
for various ethnic and economic reasons. In Malaysia, the attempt
to bring the
races together is merely superficial. I am worried that when
politics fails to
function to the best of its ability (because Malaysian politics
generally is built on
the fulcrum of race), then something will explode and push the
society to the
brink. This troubles everyone, including writers. Let us hope that
race relation
in Malaysia remains free of troubles forever.
What do you think of “1Malaysia”?
I wrote a poem on this concept, about this 1Malaysia “mayhem.” The
poem
begins with these lines:
It is like a maiden suddenly appearing
at a robbers’ lair.
It is like a gentleman suddenly materialising
at the nuns’ hut.
Everyone wants to possess it
in the name of lust, love or hypocrisy.
It should be remembered that “1Malaysia” is a kind of a
catchphrase for the
current Prime Minister of Malaysia, for in the tradition of
Malaysian politics it
appears every prime minister must have his own catchword. Usually,
this
catchword would be forgotten once the prime minister was no longer
in office.
“1Malaysia” was introduced to give a voice and character to the
current Prime
Minister. Many see it as a catchphrase with a political motif,
mainly to
strengthen the current government at whatever cost it takes. As a
result, a lot of
people end up fighting for the importance of their own race and
culture.
“1Malaysia” is also used as a postmodernist tool to disrupt an
existing norm.
For those who honour the constitution and the country’s language
policy,
“1Malaysia” could have dangerous implications if the concept is
not clearly and
properly elaborated by the Prime Minister himself.
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You support the reversal of PPSMI (Teaching of Mathematics and
Science in English).
Would you explain why?
Firstly, PPSMI itself is at odds with Articles 152 (1) and 152 (6)
of the Federal
Constitution. One wonders how the Mahathir government put PPSMI
into
practice when it is at odds with the country’s constitution.
Secondly, Bahasa Melayu has been used for years as the language of
modern knowledge in Malaysia; its pinnacle was the establishment
of Universiti
Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM) in which all the courses are conducted
in Malay.
Thirdly, a particular knowledge is easier to learn in one’s mother
tongue.
When primary school students, especially those poor students in
urban and
rural areas are forced to learn science and mathematics in
English, empirical
studies show that many of them fail to cope. If this policy goes
on, a lot of
students will suffer in their studies and in their future careers.
Fourth, Bahasa Melayu should be the language for racial unity and
solidarity in Malaysia. The PPSMI policy is troubling not only
because it pushes
aside Bahasa Melayu as a medium of education, but also as a
language for racial
unity. Our students are already in different school streams, and
lack in Bahasa
Melayu usage, so what would happen to racial unity if this policy
is pursued?
This is why I mentioned that the existing method of education
should be
maintained by improving the teaching modules and curriculum –
including the
English subject. If the teaching of English is improved, our
students would
have no problems in referring to books in English. And if we work
more on
translating works in foreign languages that would help to
strengthen the human
capital in the country.
One of the problems in Malaysian literature is that the writers
are overly racially oriented.
How could these writers contribute to the process of national
unity?
What is meant here, I believe, is that there are many writers who
write in their
respective mother tongues. This is the consequence of our
educational system
which allows national schools to run side by side with Tamil and
Chinese
vernacular schools.
However, I believe that no literary work seriously talks about
issues that
can be seen as “racial,” for literature generally tends to be
humanistic. This is
what I observed when I read Chinese and Tamil short stories
translated into
Bahasa Melayu in the project “Titian Sastera” organised by DBP,
and in the
works of other ethnic writers.
When our literary writers are set apart by their creative medium,
then the
best way to bring them together is through translation. A Malay
proverb says “if
you know not, then you love not” (tak kenal maka tak cinta). By
knowing how
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97
other races think and what their aspirations are, we could
understand each other
better. Journalistic and other topical writings should be done with
utmost
responsibility. The pen is not a sword in the hand of the brute,
but a tool to be
guided by a sound mind.
There are disputes voiced over your laureateship. How do you
respond to that?
I am open about this. It is true that there are some who have been
writing
longer than me, but have not yet received the award. I have been
writing for
about 40 years, and those who are grumbling have been writing for
a longer
period. However, we do not evaluate ourselves. We are evaluated by
a panel of
judges. The report from the panel mentioned that I have not been a
prolific
writer but that my works have created impact. The judges look for
quality more
than quantity. Although I have not published many titles, my works
have won
prizes in the short story, drama, and novel genres. For example, I
have won the
SEA Write Award and Hadiah Majlis Satera Asia Tenggara (MASTERA).
Do you think the national laureateship should be made open to
Malaysian writers who write
in English or other languages?
This is quite a sensitive and delicate question. In my opinion, a
national award
should be based on a country’s national policy – in this context,
it is the national
language policy. All countries hold on to this principle. In the
Federal
Constitution, Article 152, Bahasa Melayu is named as Malaysia’s
national
language. This language has been the lingua franca in this
region for thousands of
years, and has produced major works in the fields of literature,
philosophy and
knowledge. Malaysian national language did not just come into existence
in
1957 with the country’s independence. It has been there for
thousands of years,
compared to English which come with the colonisers in 1824. By
saying that, I
have no intention to demean Malaysian literature in English, for
the task of
writers towards mankind remains the same no matter what language
we use. It
is only in the context of your question that I was saying that the
national literary
award should be based on the country’s national language policy.
Do you think non-Malay writers who write in Bahasa Melayu should
be awarded the
national laureateship?
Of course that is a possibility. I would like to mention two
Chinese writers who
have won the SEA Write Award, a prestigious award among Southeast
Asian
countries. They are Lim Swee Tin and Jong Chian Lai. There are
other Chinese
and Indian writers as well who write creatively in the Malay
language.
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98
What is your view about the state of translation in Malaysia? Are
you satisfied with the
translation of your own works?
Translation was marginalised for a long time for lack of a clear
direction, limited
financial resources, competition by English books, and lack
leadership of the
translation institution itself. However, for the past two years I
have observed an
extraordinary dynamism at Institut Terjemahan Negara Malaysia
(ITNM)
(National Translation Institute Malaysia). They have outlined a
clearer direction,
the number of translated works including literary works have
increased, and
they have started to build smart partnership with international
publishers to
publish and distribute Malaysian translated works in the global
market.
As for my works, I am satisfied with their translations into
English, and I
say that after having read the works myself. But I am not so sure
about the
translations into other languages – such as Indonesian, Arabic,
Dutch,
Hungarian, Japanese, German, Korean, Macedonian, French, Russian,
Tamil,
Urdu and Vietnamese – because I can’t read these languages. However,
my
hope is that the target readers in these languages would find my
translated
works satisfactory in their language.
